Bret Stephens: Before we delve into Donald Trump’s legal troubles in Georgia or the upcoming G.O.P. debate, let’s take a moment to acknowledge the devastating tragedy in Hawaii. The images from Maui are truly heartbreaking. However, as we begin to uncover the series of policy failures that led to this disaster, I anticipate that our grief will quickly turn into outrage.
Gail Collins: Maui is an unforgettable event for all of us. Some may even struggle to forgive the individuals who were supposed to prevent this tragedy. There are many serious questions surrounding their competence and whether they fulfilled their responsibilities.
Bret: I came across an infuriating story in The Wall Street Journal. Apparently, Hawaiian Electric knew four years ago that it needed to address power line sparks, yet it only invested $245,000 in addressing the issue. The neglect of old dams ultimately resulted in their destruction, leading to diminished water storage and increased dry land. Additionally, the decision to not sound warning sirens only adds to the list of failures. At least the emergency chief had the decency to resign.
Gail: Let’s shift our focus to the larger issue at hand, Bret. The weather patterns this summer have been alarming worldwide, and it’s clear that global warming is to blame. Are you ready to support a widespread environmental revolution?
Bret: I’m generally opposed to large-scale revolutions, including the infamous French Revolution. However, I am in favor of implementing numerous smaller-scale changes to combat climate change. In the case of Maui, increasing solar power usage and reforestation efforts could have made a difference in preventing the fire. Additionally, simple solutions like federal financing for burying power lines could go a long way in helping.
Gail: Absolutely. We also need to focus on more substantial projects, such as President Biden’s initiatives to promote electric cars and reduce reliance on coal and oil for heating.
Bret: The more I learn about the significant mineral requirements for electric car batteries, the more I question their overall environmental impact. Just read Mr. Bean’s (aka Rowan Atkinson) environmental case in The Guardian for keeping gas-burning cars. However, I do believe that next-generation nuclear power should play a significant role in meeting our energy needs. And I agree with moving away from coal.
Gail: It’s refreshing that we can find common ground on these issues. Now, let’s turn our attention to the upcoming Republican presidential debate.
Bret: It seems like Trump will be absent from the debate, which makes political sense considering his strong lead in the primary polls. His absence also denies his trailing opponents the opportunity to highlight his numerous flaws. A pre-recorded interview with Tucker Carlson is certainly not a suitable substitute.
Gail: I may not be a Trump supporter, but I must admit that it’s unlikely he would gain much from debating opponents who lag far behind him in the polls. I believe most people would agree that a prerecorded interview doesn’t hold the same value.
Bret: Despite everything, I still find myself drawn to watch the debate out of morbid fascination. I predict it will mainly consist of Chris Christie and Vivek Ramaswamy arguing, while Ron DeSantis attempts to navigate between them. Christie will advocate for Republicans to turn against Trump, while Ramaswamy will defend Trump as the best choice. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ramaswamy eventually becomes Trump’s vice presidential pick.
Gail: Do you think that’s a wise move strategically? I can’t imagine you believe Ramaswamy would bring any substantial value to the ticket.
Bret: I met Ramaswamy a few years ago when he was discussing his book on “woke” corporations. He struck me as intelligent and persuasive. However, I’ve become less sympathetic to his views, particularly his stances on Ukraine, potential running mates like Robert F. Kennedy Jr., and reopening the 9/11 investigation. Despite these concerns, his youth, wealth, eloquence, anti-“woke” message, and minority background make him a suitable match for Trump, don’t you think?
Gail: I disagree with you on that, Bret. I don’t believe our former president wants someone quite so…interesting. Remember, he chose Mike Pence when he needed more attention.
Bret: You may be right. In that case, Tim Scott could be a viable option for vice president.
Gail: By the way, I find your comparison of DeSantis to a cornered lizard in this debate quite fitting. He has the most to lose and desperately needs to prove himself to potential Republican supporters. It’s a challenging task, especially when up against someone as skilled as Christie.
Bret: Our colleagues at The New York Times had an insightful scoop last week, detailing a pro-DeSantis PAC’s memo advising him to aggressively attack Ramaswamy and defend Trump in response to Christie’s criticisms. This advice is misguided, as attacking Ramaswamy will only elevate his status while diminishing DeSantis’s claim as a credible alternative to Trump.
Gail: I hope my dream scenario becomes a reality. I imagine Christie winning the debate and subsequently gaining momentum in New Hampshire. If he starts gaining real support, Trump will have to pay attention out of pure ego.
Bret: Presumably, Trump will resort to insulting Christie’s weight, despite his own physical appearance. Christie handles those attacks skillfully and consolidates his position as the only genuine Republican alternative to Trump. This could be beneficial if, by some chance, Trump ends up in prison.
Gail: It’s astonishing that we haven’t even mentioned the fact that the presumed Republican presidential nominee is currently facing numerous criminal indictments in various jurisdictions. Trump’s supporters seem eager to dismiss these charges as part of a political conspiracy. Can that blind loyalty withstand scrutiny? We still have a year until the Republican nominating convention.
Bret: Gail, the truest thing Trump ever said is that his base would stick with him even if he committed a heinous act. To understand his appeal, we must study cults rather than typical voter behavior. In a cult, the leader is both a savior and a victim of a shadowy conspiracy. Unfortunately, these prosecutions, no matter how deserved, only strengthen the resolve of his followers. The only way to truly defeat Trump is through a resounding electoral defeat. My concern with President Biden is that he may be more politically vulnerable than many Democrats realize.
Gail: Bret, it’s intriguing that you are the one most concerned about Biden’s reelection. As long as his health remains stable, I feel confident in his chances. His only notable drawback is being perceived as boring, which pales in comparison to the multitude of defects Trump possesses. Biden has been a much-needed breath of fresh air.
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